I am a health educator and physical trainer

Isaac Katz's Avatar

Isaac Katz

03 Jan, 2012 05:28 AM


I am a health educator and physical trainer in Mexico City and I recently
came accross an article by Dr Rosedale on Tony Robbins' blog which I found
extremely interesting. After having researched the diet I had a couple of
questions/comments I was hoping you could help me clear up.

First of I was wandering what Dr. Rosedale thinks of the Standard Ketogenic
Diet (SKD), as the diet he proposes is in essence a type of Ketogenic diet,
and how exactly does it differ from it. Relateed to this, long term studies
have not been done that I know of that look at remaining in a deep state of
ketosis for long periods of time, as Dr Rosedale's diet advices, what are
his comments on this?

Another thing which I noticed, the diet does not speak about people who
exercise regularly such as athletes and/or lift weights at the gym, does
the nutrition requirements change for such people? what if one wants to
build muscle? from what I know starches are an essential requirement for
gaining muscle - due exactly to the effect they have on blood sugar, which
brings to body to an anabolic state where it 'stores and builds', both fat
and muscle. Is it possible to build muscle without the body entering into
this state? In essence being in ketosis means the body is in a constant
catabolic state, how is it possible for the body to build muscle (or
anything) in this state?

I appreciate your time and I would appreciate very much a response. As I
will pass it along to all the people that I inform and it would help them,
as well as me, improve our lives.

Thank you very much,


  1. Support Staff 1 Posted by Fiona on 03 Jan, 2012 10:00 AM

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    The Rosedale diet promotes the burning of fats and ketones. Ketones are only adverse when they are formed in excess and not burned.

    We see a number of athletes with extremely high energy demands and, while skeptical at first, they all end up saying the same thing. Not only is a diet like this healthier overall for a person's life, but athletic performance is greatly improved when a person burns fat and becomes sensitive to insulin and leptin. The body can make enough sugar naturally to fulfill the basic needs of even the most devout athlete. When it runs on primarily fat, there is no need to re-fuel or load up on sugar before the event. You hear about athletes "hitting the wall", that happens when they run out of sugar and lack the ability to efficiently burn fat. On a program like this, that doesn't happen. They can preform at a higher level for a much longer period of time. Of course there will be a learning curve. For the first two to four weeks, they may suffer a bit of a lag, but once that fat-burning kicks in, the results are incredible.

    We've seen many athletes over the years and they all report positive results. The sugar that is needed for the quick, immediate energy will still be there, and it will constantly be refilled naturally. There is no need to take in any more. And when the body can use fat for the rest, it has a constant source of very abundant energy, more than enough for any sport.

    Also for building muscle, it is very good, as at improves insulin sensitivity which is needed to build muscle.

    The Rosedale Team.

  2. Support Staff 2 Posted by Fiona on 03 Jan, 2012 10:02 AM

    Fiona's Avatar

    Isaac, great question.. do you mind if I make it public for others to learn? your email address will always be private.

  3. 3 Posted by Isaac Katz on 03 Jan, 2012 04:24 PM

    Isaac Katz's Avatar

    Hi Fiona,

    Sure you can publish this conversation, no problem ;)

    Thanks for the great reply. So to sum up I DONT need to eat any starches to
    build muscle? what should be my meal after a heavy lifting set? I had read
    from Lyle McDonald's The Ketogenic Diet two things - first after you do a
    heavy lifting workout you deplete the glycogen in your muscles and you need
    carbs to replenish them, and if you dont eat them you seriously compromise
    your recovering abilities and lengthen the recovery process. is this true?
    second, since there is increased insulin sensitivity after working out, if
    you eat fats the body will immediately go into 'store mode' and store
    those fats as fat since no conversion is necessary.
    Lyle advices cyclical carb eating in specified quantities targeted around
    workout periods just for these reasons, what are your thoughts?

    Finally regarding Ketones, this diet does advice to remain in a ketogenic
    state indefinetely, which seems like it could easily lead to the forming of
    excess ketones which could be bad for the body, any thoughts?

    Thanks again - and thanks for checking out the site ;)

  4. Support Staff 4 Posted by Fiona on 04 Jan, 2012 10:12 PM

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    Maximal athletic performance and maximal health are not identical, and often one will need to chose between the two at certain times. So, sometimes competitive muscle building might not be so healthy.
    Yes, you will deplete glycogen after a hard workout, but that then will direct one to burn fat when no longer anaerobic (if one has adapted to this with proper diet). Your point about high insulin sensitivity then not allowing one to burn fat but only store it is not correct. It is a requisite for burning fats that insulin be low. Following the diet I recommend also trains one to become more metabolically adaptable, i.e. burning glucose when necessary and burning fat when more advantageous.

    Best of health.

  5. 5 Posted by Anna K on 31 Aug, 2013 10:34 PM

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    Hi, very interesting topic. Just to reiterate the question above that didn't seem to be answered.
    "this diet does advice to remain in a ketogenic state indefinitely, which seems like it could easily lead to the forming of excess ketones which could be bad for the body, any thoughts?"

    Or to put it simply, are there any negative side effects from being in deep ketosis long term?

    For example, may be there is a price to pay for liver constantly doing gluconeogenesis?
    Also, some studies show increased kidney stones from long term keto diets.

    Thank you so much for all the work you do!

  6. Support Staff 6 Posted by Ken on 31 Aug, 2013 11:49 PM

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    Isaac: remaining in a deep state of ketosis for long periods of time

    Anna: are there any negative side effects from being in deep ketosis long term?

    Hi Issac & Anna

    I am curious as to what you are meaning by long periods of time or long term

    Do you see it as 1, 5 10, 15 years, etc?


  7. 7 Posted by Anna K on 01 Sep, 2013 01:21 PM

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    Ken, I mean more then 5 years. I think a few months or even a few years are safe, but I'd be curious to know if 5, 10, 15 years are.

  8. Support Staff 8 Posted by Dr. Rosedale on 05 Sep, 2013 08:48 PM

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    If you are doing it exactly correctly ketones maybe higher for a few weeks after which will come down and ideally be quite low as you will then be burning them appropriately. It must be remembered that the ketones in the blood are not of the ketones that are being formed but not burned. We want them burned nearly as fast as they are being formed.

  9. Support Staff 9 Posted by Ken on 06 Sep, 2013 01:49 PM

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    I have started my second year on Dr. Ron's Plan, so far things are great on my end. I look forward to the next 4 years and beyond. I will be near 70 yrs old then and I'm confident that I will be in better health by that time.

    Thank you for your reply & wishing you the best of health...

  10. 10 Posted by Joshua Poore on 04 Nov, 2014 08:22 PM

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    I'm a 29 year old male who has followed the diet now for about 4 years, and I just had to have kidney stones removed that were nearly a half inch in diameter and in both kidneys.... Dr. Rosedale, I love the diet, but this seems to be an issue that is not addressed.... If the diet is ideal, why did I get kidney stones, and what might I be doing wrong?

  11. 11 Posted by Pingo on 05 Nov, 2014 07:19 AM

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    To my understanding it seems that endurance athletes gets better result when training on a ketogenic diet but racing with a tiny amount of carbs to get a boost at the end of the races when they need to sprint. Also there muscles suffer less on this kind of diet.

  12. Support Staff 12 Posted by Ken on 12 Nov, 2014 08:22 PM

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    Hi Joshua,
    I had a dentist years ago whom had a constant problem with kidney stones, turns out that his was from the mineral content in the water of our State.

    Me personally - I had a problem once, which makes me cringe to this day - I had a stone lodge in the tube between kidney and bladder which just about shut that kidney down and I had to be put "under" to have it removed, My stones were from calcium content which came from the enormous amount of cheese I consumed. This was years before I knew of Dr. Ron.

    Dr. Ron recommends the drinking plenty of water, you might check into it from the mineral content of the water you are consuming - just a hunch on my part.

    Do you know the nature/variety of your stones, calcium, etc.

    Wishing you the best ..


  13. 13 Posted by poorejj on 12 Nov, 2014 09:44 PM

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    Thank you very much for your reply Ken! I have done so much research on the matter, and have come to many conclusions. For one, I had been having problems with heartburn in years past and was taking quite a bit of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) for relief. Two, I drink a lot of coffee and coffee can cause one to excrete excess calcium. Three, I followed a ketogenic diet for a solid year (Dr. Rosedale's), and I followed mostly the "A" plan, except I drank a lot of coffee, and did not do any supplementation. Furthermore I eat a good deal of salt. I have also been told that the water in the state of Kentucky has a mineral content that is unfavorable for those prone to stones. So that is definitely a factor to consider because you are now the second person to tell me that...... I am slightly addicted to coffee, and I need to give it up and still have not yet done so. I am betting that the coffee affects me negatively more than it may affect others, and the coffee could also be related to my slightly elevated blood pressure. I have however cut out all baking soda, and I am supplementing potassium citrate since I see that it helps with kidney stones in those who get them due to ketogenic dieting. I am also drinking a lot of water, and going to try vitamin k2 and d3 to help with calcium distribution.... Next step is removing all coffee.

  14. Support Staff 14 Posted by Fiona on 29 Nov, 2014 08:55 AM

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    Great answer Ken! Also, Dr. Ron mentioned having too much protein can also cause the stones as well.

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