Diabetic Husband
Good Day Dr Rosedale
We keep on seeing that diabetes is "curable". My husband has been
diabetic since 2007. He has been through all the meds. In September
he was on 4 Metformin and 1 Januvia per day with his sugar still at
over 10! He had removed all carbs and sugar mostly!
In September he went onto a Ketogenic diet and stopped all meds.
The first day his sugar was still 10, the following day 10, the
following day 9.5. He has done really well, with an average reading
around 8 and with the very odd reading in the high 5's. Early in
November his HB1AC was 8.2 without meds. He will have another test
in February.
Of late his morning readings have been getting higher and were
sitting in the 10's some mornings. We have read up on the morning
effect. He doesn't sleep that well and the high cortisol etc does
make sense. This week he has been taking his supplements ResistX
(blood sugar stabilising supplement), fenugreek, apple cider and
coconut oil before going to bed. He had two good readings in the
7's, but back to around 9 this morning. After a green smoothie and
walk his sugar was 7.2.
He is consuming 80 percent fat, 15 percent protein and 5 percent
carb in the form of green vegetables etc. I have read your site and
diet - similar ideas to what he is doing. Are there any suggestions
that you can make in light of what he is already doing. Is it maybe
better to go back on 1 metformin to see if there is any benefit. Or
is it best to keep on going and hope that over a period of many
more months he will have more success. I look forward to hearing
back from you.
King regards
Amy
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Support Staff 1 Posted by Ken on 10 Jan, 2015 04:13 PM
Hi Amy
Is your husband drinking anything that contains caffeine? I found that caffeine does effect BS readings, it will vary between individuals.
• You commented
He had removed all carbs and sugar mostly!. Does mostly mean completely all starchy carbs and especially processed foods that contain carbs and little or no dietary fiber. Please excuse the questions, I am trying to narrow things down.Ken
2 Posted by Amy on 10 Jan, 2015 11:06 PM
Hi Ken He has two cups of coffee in the morning. His sugar readings are lower late morning early afternoon. Since September he has been Ketogenic. Low carb, moderate protein, high fat. No processed food or starch. Egg, bacon and spinach for breakfast or green smoothie (coconut milk, avo, pea protein, vital greens) - lunch is a salad (lettuce, onion, cucumber, avo, spinach) and protein, dinner green veg (cauliflower, broccoli, asparagus) and protein. Supplemented by coconut oil, butter, cream, olive oil. 2 glasses red wine at night (small), nuts (macadamia) water throughout the day. He hasn't been able to loose any weight either and his calories are in the correct range. He is exercising too. Fast walk almost every day, git fit tennis 2x week, tries to do something every day. Thanks
Support Staff 3 Posted by Ken on 11 Jan, 2015 12:26 AM
Hi Amy
Could you put the following in grams instead of percentage for his daily total.
• total daily carbs in grams =
• total daily protein in grams =
• total daily fat / oil in grams =
1 tablespoon of coconut or olive oil has around 13 to 14 grams of fat.• also count the fat in the butter & cream
• I'm curious as to what you are counting as a correct calorie range.
Thanks ...
Ken
4 Posted by Amy on 11 Jan, 2015 01:25 PM
Hi Ken
Hugh is using My Fitness Pal and entering all the data onto that. I will give you a few days data
Carbs 24g 39g 58g 19g
Protein 67g 88g 121g 52g
Fat 130g 131g 141g 173g
Calories 1791 2073 2237 1986
We eat at home and cook from scratch, take all the readings off of the product. Last night he took the supplements at 10 (resistX, apple cider and fenugreek) and coconut oil. His BG this morning was 9, 3 hours later after not eating just having coffee with cream was 9 - it did go down to 7.7 at 2pm and was 7.5 tonight. I will attach the copies of his data.
Thanks
Amy
Support Staff 5 Posted by Ken on 11 Jan, 2015 04:08 PM
Hi Amy
Here is my analysis of the 5 days you posted:
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
protein = 375
fiber = 38
carbs = 179
sugar = 93
///////////////////////
The following amount of sugar is keeping your husband from losing any weight and is bouncing his B S around. Elevated insulin hinders the body from using fat.
carb minus fiber = sugar
• 179 carb minus 38 fiber = 141 sugar
• sugar 93 plus 141 sugar from non-fiber carb = 234 sugar
• Also the caffeine is helping keep the B S elevated as well.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
• Generally speaking not more than 20 gram of protein is recommended per meal.
Ken
6 Posted by Amy Verdoorn on 11 Jan, 2015 10:08 PM
Hi Ken
Can you help me out. Does that mean increasing fiber? Or just lowering the protein consumption? I don't quite understand this. Thanks so much for your assistance.
Thanks
Amy
Sent from my iPhone
Support Staff 7 Posted by Ken on 12 Jan, 2015 01:12 AM
Hi Amy
The daily total of 60 to 70 grams of protein is okay, but that needs to be spread out fairly even with the meals and snacks:
• such as not more than 20 grams of protein for breakfast, lunch or dinner, which would give you 60 grams total protein for all the main meals – then other protein amounts in the snacks.
Of course if your husband was a body builder then a little more protein would be appropriate.
For those that are not body builders or athletes, 60 to 70 grams of protein per day is okay. When protein is over 20 grams per meal there is a tendency for the body to covert it to sugar and store it as fat, “not good for anyone, especially a diabetic. It raises the B S, which again, is not good .
• Example: when checking labels if it says total carbohydrates = 25 grams and total fiber is 3 grams then you end up with 22 grams of sugar.
//////////////////////////////////////////
minus 3 grams of fiber
/////////////////////////////////////////
Adding fiber or lessening the amount of protein will not change things here.
• lessening the amount of sugar and the non-fiber carbs is needed. 10 – 15 grams daily total of non-fiber carbs is acceptable, however, non-fiber carbs are not really needed.
• I noticed that the alcohol is very high in sugar.
/////////////////////////////////////////
I suggest that your husband eliminates the alcohol and coffee until his system has stabilized, he needs to give his body 3 to 5 months to make adjustments. Then maybe have (one) cup of decaffeinated coffee daily.
Concerning becoming KetogenicWith his present diet he will not be able to become a fat burner. If he isn't already gaining weight, eventually he will and his diabetes will only worsen, I'm speaking from personal experience.
Main thing to work on: eliminate the - sugar and non-fiber carbs and space out the protein to not more than 20 grams per meal.
• I encourage you to study Dr. Ron's Health Plan
• You may also find the following helpful:
Protein & Weight
Wishing you guys the best Amy, I'm confident that your husband can accomplish this.
Ken
8 Posted by Amy Verdoorn on 12 Jan, 2015 07:06 AM
Hi Ken
I have been reading through Dr Rosedale's plan. We will definitely make the changes to the protein intake and spacing the protein, as well as the coffee and wine. Just one more thing - the vegetables he is consuming are lettuce, cucumber, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, brussels sprouts. Are you saying those also have to be reduced? I thought Ketogenic is High Fat, moderate protein and low carb - and trying to find the best balance within that to suit a persons needs. From reading through Dr Rosedale's plan - there doesn't seem to be much difference except that the protein is more from chicken and fish, not meat?
Thank you very much for taking the time out to assist us with this and give us the encouragement that you have.
Support Staff 9 Posted by Ken on 12 Jan, 2015 02:43 PM
Hi Amy
Out of the 5 PDF files you posted the wine-(sugar) and caffeine are problematic as is the high protein intake in a single meal, like the "72 grams".
I'm afraid that I may have confused you more than I have helped. Basically avoid the wine-(sugar), caffeine, and all starchy non-fiber carbs as possible, plus the high intake of protein in a single meal.
You said:
I thought Ketogenic is High Fat, moderate protein and low carbThis is correct but first you have to be to able burn fat and high sugar intake will prevent this.
• Main Goal:
Is to start the body using the stored fat already present instead of sugar for fuelTry this: for 5 weeks have no wine or caffeine at all, not even a sip; plus have not more than 20 grams of protein per meal - nuts have protein so watch how much you eat there as well.
Also avoid the coconut oil for these five weeks - this will force the body to start using the already stored fat.
You will be tempted to cheat a meal but resist this - you can take control of your diet, take a "you're the boss attitude"
:-)Your body may pitch a fit at first, (but hang in there); once the fat burning starts to take place, your hubby will be amazed.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
These vegetables are fiber carbs and are okay -
You asked:
*Are you saying those also have to be reduced?*the vegetables he is consuming are lettuce, cucumber, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, brussels sprouts.
There is some sugar in these but not enough that you should avoid them.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Rule of thumb – (carbs minus fiber equals sugar)
All this can be confusing at times but you will be able to get things sorted out and it will be fine.
BTW: How tall is your husband and what would he like to see himself weigh; perhaps I can make a suggestion on protein intake on a daily basis. At this time 65 - 70 grams total daily protein intake is a good start.
A reminder: some nuts have a fair amount of protein in just a few nuts - keep a watch on these.
Ken
10 Posted by Amy Verdoorn on 13 Jan, 2015 12:28 PM
Hi Ken
Thank you so much. That information really made sense. Hugh has started today making those changes and will monitor. We have realised the My Fitness App info is not complete and so he has started including everything including fibre content. Today and yesterday he only consumed 60g protein for the day, carbs 22g and fiber 16g. He is 183cm(6ft) and weighs 100kg. He hasn't lost but hasn't gained weight either. I would think 85 kg's would be a good target at this stage. His BG 8.3 this morning and 7.8 this evening 2 hrs after dinner.
Thanks once again!
Sent from my iPhone
Support Staff 11 Posted by Ken on 13 Jan, 2015 02:22 PM
Hi Amy
For Hugh's height of 6', 85kg in weight is doable and reasonable. Generally speaking, for him to drop down to a 83kg (185 lbs) – 86kg (190 lbs) weight range, around 70 grams of protein daily should get him there.
Last year I put together some info and a chart that you may find interesting..
Protein & Weight Charts
If Hugh has water retention, that will be lost first and he may have a rapid weight loss due to that - then loss may slow somewhat.
Interesting info concerning this slow down..
Weigh Loss Slow Down
See the attached PDF file below if link is no longer valid.
Keep us informed on how Hugh is doing.
Rooting for you ...Ken
12 Posted by Amy Verdoorn on 14 Jan, 2015 12:59 PM
Hi Ken
Thank you once again, we will read those. He has had a good day today - except for a bad headache due I'm sure to no coffee in the morning. He is very motivated. I will definitely keep in touch with his progress.
Have a great day!
Sent from my iPhone
Support Staff 13 Posted by Ken on 14 Jan, 2015 01:48 PM
Thanks Amy, you have a great day too.
• I remember those headaches myself, they won't last too long.
In the days, months ahead you will start to realize that Dr. Ron's Health Plan is so much more than just losing weight. Losing weight is only one of the benefits of it.
If Hugh started taking the meds again keep a check on B S readings.Give Hugh a hello for us ..
Ken
Support Staff 14 Posted by Ken on 14 Jan, 2015 06:24 PM
Amy
In the attached PDF file is some info by Dr. Ron I came across last year but failed to keep bookmark link.
You and Hugh may find it very interesting, I sure did.
Ken
Insulin and Its Metabolic Effects
Presented at Designs for Health Institutes
Boulder Fest - August 1999 Seminar - PDF format
Support Staff 15 Posted by Ken on 23 Jan, 2015 01:38 PM
An Email from Amy and her husband Hugh
Dr. Ron & Support Staff are wishing them the best ...
From Amy V
Hi Ken
I was going to send you an update today. Well!!! Hugh has made the changes you suggested, no coffee (he has a small one in the morning because of the headaches), no wine, 70g protein no more than 20g per meal, no coconut oil to start the day, his calories are around 1500 per day and his pie chart still shows 73% fat, 20% Protein, and 7% carb. He is still in ketosis.
Since our last correspondence, and starting the changes on the 12 January, Hugh has started to loose a little weight slowly and not the first few days, It is moving now which is fantastic.
His BS readings are coming down fantastically!! This morning first thing was 6.3 as was Monday. He has had quite a few readings in the 5's late afternoon and as an average over the 7 days his BS has been 6.5!! (Over the last 14 days was 7.5%).
We really feel like this has been the light bulb moment which we have you to thank. Hugh thinks you are a star. Having been really good, counting everything, using My Fitness Pal, his BS monitor on his iPhone which records all his measurements, feeling like he was doing everything right (98%), exercising etc, these - what seem to be subtle changes have made a huge impact.
The morning reading going down is massive as that was really a problem reading. It has motivated him to keep on going, its not hard and to see such results so quickly is very motivating. He is looking forward to doing his bloods at the beginning of Feb which will be three months since the last (which we know won't be completely realistic but should show quite a change since the last one). We can send you his latest My Fitness Pal entries.
Once again thank you, your input was just the right input needed at this stage of his journey, and has made such an impact. I certainly feel like contacting the newspaper each time he has a better reading and when they are in the 5's - shouting from the roof tops. (Haha!)
We will keep in touch!
Best regards
Amy
On 01/23/2015 07:17 AM, Amy V wrote:
Hi Ken
You can share with whoever! We really don't mind at all! It is so exciting to see results and for more people to be exposed to success is fantastic.
Have a great day!
Best regards
Amy
Thank you so much Amy. You and Hugh stay in touch on the Help_Line..
Much appreciated
Ken/ Rosedale Support Staff Team
16 Posted by Don Cuthbert on 23 Jan, 2015 11:36 PM
I have often wondered about Dr. Rosedale's opinion on avoiding coconut oil during the initial transition period to becoming a fat burner. From what I have found, I believe coconut oil is an exception to avoiding saturated fat during this crucial period. In the FAQ page on his website, he says this:
"Saturated fats are generally (but not always) slightly harder to burn (a big exception being coconut oil, which is very healthy for you) but as your body becomes better and better at it by practicing on easy unsaturated fats, you are welcome to consume more advanced fats with the confidence that your body will know what to do with it."
So my understanding is that coconut oil (and possibly even ghee? being another MCT oil) is actually fine at any time, even when the body is learning to burn fat efficiently.
Dr. Rosedale also Tweeted this Reply on Twitter in Dec., 2011:
"@JamieGisby Medium chain SFAs such as coconut oil are great all of the time."
https://twitter.com/DrRosedale/status/144434751909015554
Support Staff 17 Posted by Ken on 24 Jan, 2015 12:28 AM
Hi Don
Agree with you comment.
When I first started Dr. Ron's diet I did not as yet have his book, that came about 2 months later - give or take.
I had enough fat around my middle that my body was forced to start burning it before I ever got into using olive & coconut oil.
I am of the opinion that when a person is overweight when starting on his diet that, not using any oil or perhaps no more than 3 tablespoons per day. From my own journey this is what took place in my beginning days. I lost 28 pounds my first month, which included a lot of water - " I had bad water retention".
Based upon what I have learned over the past couple years - forcing ones body to use already stored fat is a great way to begin, however, I realize it is not the only way.
This why I suggested to Amy's husband Hugh to take a similar approach.
I know there are schools of thought that suggest, to me are too high amount of oil from the beginning, which I believe isn't necessary.
Dr. Ron's talks about not struggling with hunger on his diet & then mentions about, "when you are hungry".
I have recently completed a test (3 months) where I was using 100 - 120 grams daily of olive & coconut oil mix, I started to gain weight and I am fairly active for a 65 year old. For the past couple of weeks I have started losing the few pounds that I gained but there has not been any unusual hunger.
For me, if one is using a proper amount of protein as long as the body has some stored body fat there should be no concern about muscle loss, that is if one is a fat burner.
Thank you for your comment
Ken/ Rosedale Support Staff Team
18 Posted by Don Cuthbert on 24 Jan, 2015 02:45 AM
I think the idea behind eating fat while adapting to ketosis is that eating good fat helps to train the body to look for fat as fuel in the hope that it will be less likely to scavenge muscle tissue to produce the glucose that it is used to. Once the metabolism is re-trained to prefer fat, the existing fat stores will hopefully become the first resource for energy needs. Then eating as much fat as at the beginning of the diet change is not necessary, as you have pointed out. (Most of us have more stored fat than is healthy or else fat stored in the wrong places, even if we appear more slim than many).
Those beginning weeks are certainly the most difficult. When I first followed the Rosedale diet, I had just begun a big home reno project, requiring me to haul and carry large chimney bricks out of my house as I removed the chimney. I was feeling pretty weak for that work during the transition period and still trying to figure out what else I could add in the way of more fat in my diet. I had always tended to be slim, even when I ate terribly in regards to carbs, but was starting to get fat building up in the most unhealthy areas prior to this. My wife had overcome gestational diabetes by following Rosedale's diet, so we already knew it worked if followed properly.
Support Staff 19 Posted by Ken on 24 Jan, 2015 03:25 AM
Good point Don.
In my beginning I probably ate around 60 or so grams of protein daily, tuna or salmon 3 to 4 times daily plus, I had at least 3 salads with those meals with maybe 1 tablespoon of olive oil on each salad and 1avocado most days, so I was getting some good fat from the fish, a little from the olive oil & avocado while making that transition, so you do have a valid point.
Support Staff 20 Posted by Ken on 23 Feb, 2015 12:31 AM
Hi Amy & Hugh
How are things going for you guys?
Ken/ Rosedale Support Team
21 Posted by amy.v on 23 Feb, 2015 07:43 AM
Hi Ken
Actually since we last spoke, the last week and a half Hugh’s BS have gone up into the 9’s with no real reason, which we can’t understand. He has been tired and hasn’t been as active. He has also only been eating when hungry, so maybe only close to lunch and has upped his good fat in take, but otherwise doing the same. Yesterday was eggs, bacon and avo for breakfast, cold chicken for lunch and creamy chicken on zucchini noodles for dinner with a few nuts in between. His BS was 9.2 this am and 8.6 late morning. Hopefully it will start falling again. I guess if he has a virus perhaps this could be a reason? Hope you are well.
Thanks
Amy
Support Staff 22 Posted by Ken on 23 Feb, 2015 08:00 AM
Hi Amy
Yes a virus can raise the BS - definitely stresses the body - any stress can influence the BS.
Is he taking the recommended Magnesium and Potassium, it will help.
Has Hugh been drinking any coconut milk - potential for lots of sugar there, do you have total carb and fiber in grams of it?
Ken/ Rosedale Support Team
23 Posted by Amy Verdoorn on 23 Feb, 2015 11:28 AM
Hi Ken
He does take Magnesium but not potassium. What would the recommended dose be?
Thanks
Amy
Sent from my iPhone
Support Staff 24 Posted by Ken on 23 Feb, 2015 11:44 AM
Hi Amy
Type 2 diabetes is reversible using Dr. Rosedale's Diet - It has worked for me and many others. I have been on metformin, actos, and 2 different types of injections but they did not help - I am living proof that Type 2 diabetes is reversible, when following Dr. Ron's diet.
On pages 156 - 159 of his book Dr Ron gives recommendations.
Coconut Milk data There are many types of coconut milk, so check the label; carbs minus fiber equals true sugar
Resist-X side effects
Resist-X
Stimulants can keep B S elevated, this includes caffeine..
Ken/ Rosedale Support Team