Muscle loss
I am a 54 year old post menopausal woman. I have had high blood sugar for some time. I have chosen not to go to a doctor. I have been struggling for a year with sugar readings over 200-300. I also think I have lost a lot of muscle and have weak painful thighs and shoulders. I have not yet bought the book but have tried to follow Dr R's principles. I am going to order the book. Any suggestions to get the sugars down. I have added vanadyl sulfate, chromium and gymnema as supplements. I am going to try doing more raw green veggies along with low carb moderate protien.
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Support Staff 1 Posted by Ken on 16 Apr, 2013 01:11 PM
Hi Dmason
Glad to see that you are interested in Dr. Ron's work..
I am a former diabetic typ-2 myself, struggled with it for about 10yrs — 2010-2012 was a really rough time.
I came across Dr Ron's Health Plan in June 2012 and my health has been changed, "for the good", forever.
The diet part of Dr. Ron's health plan is imperative, (key). The vitamins/supplements mentioned in his book are important but without the proper diet it would be hard to say what benefit vitamins/supplements will have.
• What brought you to add vanadyl sulfate, chromium and gymnema?
• You mention — I have not yet bought the book but have tried to follow Dr R's principles
• Do you have a list of exactly what you eat & amount per day?
• How long have you been trying Dr. R's diet?
Wishing you the best...
Ken
2 Posted by dmason on 16 Apr, 2013 03:53 PM
Hi Ken,
I too "came across" Dr. Rosedales work actually years ago through and article on
Dr. Mercolas site. This was long before I knew I waas diabetic. My Mom was T2 so
I always knew it was a possibility for me. I printed it out and saved it and
forgot about it. I found it when looking through some old stuff in my
bookcase. Ironically, I think if I had followed the advise I may be much better
off today.
I have read pretty much everything on the Rosedale web-site and have tried to
follow the Rosedale guidelines, albeit loosely. I was eating much higher amounts
of protien but am now trying to limit even that. I have eaten "low carb" off and
on for many years losing weight that way. I do try to eat just green veggies,
fats and meats, no fruit, no starches etc. I have a hard time adhering
sometimes because I am such a foody. I love to cook and love to eat even more!
I don't always write down what I eat. I do have an app for my phone that I have
used.
I know I need to get serious about the diet, it is just so hard. I live with a
husband that has perfect sugar, supposedly. He did have a heart attack years ago
and follows much more of the high carb, low fat diet so we always have tons of
high starch foods around. I am always tempted.
I have noticed recently that I have lost muscle in my legs and probably
everywhere. I don't know if this is from my diabetes or menopause. I don't see
MD's as I don't believe in their philosophy of treating symtoms with drugs. I do
not want to take metformin or insulin shots therefore why go to a doctor that
will only know how to treat me this way. I think I had seen the supplements
suggested on Dr. R's site. I know that no supplement will allow me to eat
whatever I want. I am trying to be perfect with diet, I don't do well unless I
am. Even then, it takes at least 2 weeks to get BG's under 200 I think the
supplements are probably helpful but don't know for sure.
What do you think of fats in the diet? I have been staunchly against the low fat
craze and believe animal fats are actually good for us in moderation. I try to
get pastured meats when I can.
I just watched a docu on the raw vegan diet for diabetetes. The people in it had
amazing results but I don't think I can be vegan and all raw. I think I would
die from boredom and stavation. Have you heard much about it and if so what are
your thoughts?
Sorry so wordy, please write me back. I am interested in hearing from anyone
who has turned their disease around without drugs or insulin.
Thanks for caring enough to write to me,
Deb
Debra Mason CMS QSC
Support Staff 3 Posted by Ken on 16 Apr, 2013 11:33 PM
Greetings Deb
I started Dr. R's diet in mid-June 2012. At that time I was on:
• 3 metformin & 1 daily victoza injection daily for diabetes
• 2 ace inhibitors, 3 channel blockers and 1 diurectic daily for high blood pressure
• I didn't have Dr. R's book at that time but started using some of the guidlines that is on his website. I jumped in with both feet, "if you will", within 3 wks I was able to completely get off the diabetic stuff. Since that time my BS remains in the 65 to 85 range. This was before I ever started with any vitamins/supplements.
• Since Feb. 2013 I have been off all those meds for the high blood pressure as well, it runs in the 130s-140s / 80s-90s and is more stable than I can recall.
While my original intent was to get my diabetes and blood pressure under control, what has taken place is more than I expected but I sure am thankful.
To top it off I have a weight loss of 64 lbs which is a blessing for sure.
My doctor will be taking me off the data base list as being diabetic June 2013 when I have lab work again.
Doc don't know about me being off the blood pressure meds as yet.
I have changed my outlook on eating to one of eating to live from one of living to eat.
I too have family and friends that temp me with what I don't need to be eating, they see the BIG change in me and for some it kinda bothers them but I must look beyond that and let my body do some much needed healing/renewing.
Once our body makes the switch from sugar to good fat burning, amazing things begin to happen.
========================================
My meals and snacks consist of: avocados, sardines, salmon, tuna, ( skinless chicken breast, chicken eggs, "grass fed" ), broccoli, cauliflower, olives, olive oil, pecans, walnuts, almonds/almond flour — on occasion I have grass fed beef
This may be of interest: Eat Wild
========================================
I encourage you to hang in there, work thru any temptations.
Do this for yourself....
Ken
4 Posted by sersitus on 10 Jan, 2017 02:43 AM
Muscle loss when post-menopausal is sarcopenia, osteoporosis, loss of skin, hair, vision, hearing, lung capacity, 'loss of aerobic capacity', shrinking brain & spine, organ prolapse... -it's everywhere in the system, under too many names. Yet you need oxygen to burn fat. There seems to be no medical understanding of this systemic shut-down in 'sensitive' individuals ("more women than men" with a problematic HPA axis)... because men don't experience it till their mid 70's : then it is labelled "ageing frailty" = a medical mystery. At 57-60 in a woman (sarcopenia affects 10% of the population at this age) it is simply brushed off and ignored, and you get told that all the strategies do work , you just have to be patient !! Except that in the mean time insulin & adrenaline & norepinephrine are killing us slowly and the body starves, increasingly unable to USE carbs, protein, or fat, from diet or internal, or oxygen or water, shut off. Conventional medicine can't stop it & says " what do you expect?, you're getting old." ( if not, who cares about annoying 'useless old hags').
Functional and dietary medicines are designed for normal people (not sensitive HPA /nervous system) and for "adults" with the common big diseases, mostly not for the already & prematurely "aged" who typically don't have big diseases. Did you know that after menopause we are no longer "adult" to medicine, no longer 'fully human' to society?
I think that the medicines do not know what to do. That's ok, but not to brush off the issue as if it does not exist.
In 6 months on internet, i have not found a single targeted answer or got a single direct answer! And i have lost more lean mass. I have asked here too.
The "be patient" has not worked for me, for this diet or any other strategy i tried in 50 years. Since no answer, i'll write here what i surmise.
The LCHF circles discuss that keto diet does not "burn muscle for energy" (by gluconeogenesis) and i agree. But the whole body lean mass loss in older women does NOT produce energy: one feels like in a slow 'in-dying' state, weakened, rotting away. It's just dying tissues and cells (just look at dead skin cells coming off after the shower, when skin is brushed by the towel) that don't receive nutrients, water, oxygen, and the broken down dead cells overload the liver with toxins, and acidify (ketones are acidic too), which worsens everything.
Men like mercola consider ageing weakness as a "LackOf" various powers or energies, ignoring that with the shut-down, repair & maintenance disappear too. Strong training does not imorove that. The new view is lack-of deploying the higher capacity for Autophagy & re-building. But the cells everywhere are already dying, starved! And If one can't digest much of anything any more, if one can't even feed successfully enough to counter weakening for a bit of oxygen and exercise, how can one hope to "activate" anything? Including fat burning? In sensitives, the activation has been there since birth, and runs out around 40, and there is very little rest or basic recovery.
I now wonder if any kind of diet can stop the 'in-dying' when nothing gets to the cells. By the number of older women posting about diets not working, i don't seem to be the only one. And i have met a number of older women with this major problem of appetite loss and wind-down. One has 'survived' for the last 20 years on tea-milk & medications! No one ever asked her if she eats or ever moves out of her house. The knowledge is there to work it out, but only experts can. When will they take an interest in offering options to try to these 10%, instead of focusing on the limited view of 'muscle' loss or burning?
I'll be waiting to be told i'm wrong and what to do to stop this. But 'Waiting'... to die-out some more is not particularly a nice option. Don't "they" want to reduce nursing homes?
Support Staff 5 Posted by Ken on 10 Jan, 2017 09:04 PM
Hi Sersitus
Barring an accident, I will live longer, in better condition physically and mentally, then I would have otherwise.
Dr. Rosedale's recommendations have done wonders for me - I would love for others to accept his teaching without trying to figure out all the science behind his eating plan - I equate that with not flipping a switch to enjoy the benefits of electric heat because of (not knowing the science behind electricity).
It does not take long (not over-nite) to start seeing improvement in one's health, these improvements will be seen in lab tests or outward physical appearance.
Ken/ Rosedale Team
6 Posted by Kristin on 15 Jan, 2017 07:22 PM
First, sorry to hear of your struggles. Dr Rosedales way of eating prolonged the inevitable insulin shots for years. I had to follow it very strictly.
Then my bs shot up and was impossible to bring it down under 100 which is where I stayed for years eating the Rosedale way. Eventually I lost too much weight, had muscle wasting, hair loss, malnourishment etc.
I kept going to doctors and they said I was fine despite bs over 200-400. Finally I was hospitalized and put immediately on insulin. Did I wasn't that??? Absolutely not BUT it saves my life.
It is not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.
I still eat the Rosedale diet very closely but insulin gives me the freedom to eat a little bigger meal.
I was down to a small handful of lettuce, 1 T oil and an ounce of protein twice a day.
My body was eating itself. The other beauty about insulin is I immediately started absorbing nutrients. NO BODY wants to go on insulin but sometimes diet and exercise alone are not enough.
There are tests to determine if it's an autoimmune disease ( attacking your pancreas) and a test to see if or how much insulin your producing on your own. I encourage you to get them. I believe you can self fund them if you refuse to go to the dr.
C- peptide determines your own production
GAD ( glutamic acid decarboxilaze) determines it its autoimmune and your body is attacking your pancreas.
If you google GAD it will give you something about depression. You have to google GAD diabetes or the full name.
If you are adhering strictly with the Rosedale diet including protein as it certainly raises my bs, and you still can't get to your goal then I strongly recommend these tests.
I eat very similar to Ken. Meat, fish, poultry, eggs in moderate amounts ( I still weigh them as the raise me) I eat avocado with every meal, olive oil, olives, pecans, Macs and pumpkin seeds. Only above ground low carb veggies like bok choy, asparagus, celery, scallions and very small amounts of green beans , a couple brussel sprouts, mushrooms.
I need to be cautious with broccoli, cauliflower and even too many salad greens. I keep saturated fat low and rarely any dairy as that spikes me too.
Best of luck.
Support Staff 7 Posted by Ken on 15 Jan, 2017 07:53 PM
Hi Kristin, thank you for your input.
Ken/ Rosedale Team
8 Posted by sersitus on 17 Jan, 2017 12:46 AM
I dont unferstand this or know how to apply this to me, and frankly i am too weary of the endless struggle/living hell of trying to survive. If the body can't live but by eating itself, so be it. I'll be no loss.
Support Staff 9 Posted by Ken on 17 Jan, 2017 01:30 AM
Sersitus, sorry that you are struggling. If Dr. Rosedale's recommendations are followed as many have found, including myself , his diet will be helpful.
As stated many times here at Support, Dr. Rosedale closed his private practice many years ago and no longer is taking on any patients, nor doing consulting, paid or otherwise.
We here at Support are limited in how we can help. It would take Dr. Rosedale examining you to make an assessment of what is taking place but again, he no longer accepts patients.
You ask for information and we have tried to help, remember we are limited, by law, in how we can help.
Ken/ Rosedale Team
10 Posted by sersitus on 17 Jan, 2017 08:50 AM
Thank you, Ken. I didn't know that Dr Rosedale was no longer in practice. too bad for me. Yes I know the limitations of support systems, especially in the domain of health.
Apologies if I am a bit blunt, but I have struggled my whole life, been damaged by many doctors, and have never found any effective help in the last 20 years, and I am now too exhausted to continue trying to work out for myself ways to maintain my body's life.
What I say about women like me is valid and true: medicine has no understanding or options to offer because of the interfering HPA Axis (type of person: hyperactives, mild autistic spectrum, pyroluria, stress intolerance, difficulty with memory and socialisation, all sorts of sensitivities, ineffective digestion, intolerance of insufficient exercise or sun, etc. )
We are the 'collateral damage' because we represent only 3% of the population in the statistics, the 'outliers'. Our problem is major and system-wide lipid metabolism dysfunction, far beyond metabolic syndrome, yet far less affected by 'diseases' (eg never any obesity or hypertension, even). But is this spreading, so it is time for medicine to start looking into this.
Sorry for making you feel helpless.
marika
Support Staff 11 Posted by Ken on 17 Jan, 2017 10:02 AM
Marika, with Dr. Rosedale closing his private practice and going on the road, so to speak, with that he has chosen a hard road to travel.
It is a very difficult to get people to rethink generations of misinformation. He can accomplish more, long term, by helping others that are leaders in the health field, such as doctor(s), for one - they deal with patients everyday. It will take much time for this to take place but someone has to step up and do it.
Dr. Ron could have stayed in private practice and catered to the wealthy and lived a very comfortable lifestyle but this is not him.
You mention: (Our problem is major and system-wide lipid metabolism dysfunction, far beyond metabolic syndrome).
Dr. Rosedale understands this and he is trying to get a population of people to understand as well but, this generational misinformation that I mentioned is not gonna change in a short amount of time, so Dr. Ron has to keep plugging away.
Many variables are in play that Dr. Ron runs into that are a hindrance such as, to name a couple: there is much money to be made that if people remain sick, there is fear of change.
Ken/ Rosedale Team
12 Posted by sersitus on 18 Jan, 2017 02:49 PM
Hi Ken.
Thanks for talking with me.
I totally agree with you about Dr Rosedale travels to undo inadequate concepts [it ud my opinion that we-colkectively are stuck because of frameworks of thinking], and i am immensely grateful that some of his ideas are publicly available as videos or papers on sites like dietdr.com.
I also know that the most effective is to address the cocerns of the majority (people, doctors, and authorities) - the 'big diseases' such as diabetes.
My own work (and personal concern) lies with pre-disease deterioration that people and doctors continue to view as mere variations of normality because it affects only small numbers. For these, there is only snippets of useful medical knowledge that have to be hunted through tons of papers, books, and presentations, and nobody seems interested in them, usually, although your support group is a little different. It's exhausting my body resources to do all this, and frustrating as you have noticed.
But as much as i think i'll have to find my own way out of the appetite loss and general deterioration, i also now think that studying his book might be interesting; because you said he knows about the lipid dysfunction that affects so many fundamental aspects of physiology. After i resolve a current huge bill for repair to my home-minivan's motor, i will see if i can afford to buy his book, following your suggestion. (Mostly, i cannot buy books as i used to).
Does he have a list of published papers?
If you are ok with it, i would like to occasionally add to the discussion started on my questions, to share practical strategies i find effective, for whomever might be interested. I have written one today: using KHCO3 Potassium Bicarbonate .
Thank you for your time moderating this forum.
Marika
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Support Staff 13 Posted by Ken on 18 Jan, 2017 06:11 PM
Hi Marika
Sure you can add to your discussions - others such as Kristin has, may have information to share as well.
You can find much helpful information :> Rosedale: Videos, Writings, PDF files, text info
Ken/ Rosedale Team